EP 114 - Responsible and Responsive with Elliot Gantz

Lessons in Entrepreneurship from a Veteran Business Owner, My Dad, Elliot Gantz

Hey there, we are taking a step into the Wayback Machine today with a much beloved and much-downloaded podcast episode from 2018 with my dad, Elliot. Now I spent five years working for him, but never took over the business.

I think that my father was really great at encouraging me to follow my own passion, which I really appreciate. However, Elliot, my dad, has been a great mentor to me where everything throughout my life was annoyingly a lesson.

Now, that doesn’t mean our relationship was without its ups and downs, dramas, and disappointments. I always like to share that when people hear me talking to my dad because we have both worked really hard to have the relationship that we have today.

I’m replaying this because 100% of the businesses that I work with right now are family-owned. Given the data on family-owned businesses, there is a really good chance that maybe you have a family-owned business.

Now here’s what that means. That means multiple family members are working together, or the son or daughter has bought the business from a parent. Or even in one case, my client has purchased the business from a long-time mentor who was like a father figure, or a mentor-like figure. Or their parent owned a business and they have started their own business like I have but they have mom or dad in their head with them on a daily basis.

I have found some pretty interesting statistics on family businesses. These statistics are a bit old. They’re good 10 to 15 years old but really they highlight the importance of family business and the fact that it takes a village to run a business, or more specifically, a family.

Now there were 5.5 million family businesses in the United States. This was a statistic from 2011. Family-owned businesses contribute 57% of the US GDP and employ 63% of the workforce and are responsible, at the time, for 78% of all new job creation. 35% of Fortune 500 companies are family controlled.

It’s about families in business more than family business. So 77% of all new business ventures established in the United States are founded with significant involvement of the family in the business. Another 3% engaged family members within the next two years. 48.1% of entrepreneurs said they grew up in a family business like I did.

That’s why this is such a big deal. While entrepreneurship has certainly grown a lot and these statistics have likely changed, we’re coming upon the biggest wealth transfer we’ve ever seen, and that likely includes family businesses.

If you’ve ever wondered the popularity, the importance, or the significance of family business, just look at TV, Sons of Anarchy, Arrested Development, another Jason Bateman one, Ozark, A&E’s reality show about Mark Wahlberg, Breaking Bad, Succession, Yellowstone, and even the new Netflix series The Gentlemen.

While many of these shows have nefarious components that we all love to tune into, most family businesses do not, but they do have unique problems when it comes to scaling and success while maintaining their sanity and the sanctity of the family. So to pay homage to my clients and their challenges, here’s me and my dad talking business.

Hey, bold leaders. I’m excited today to have a very special guest in the podcast studio with me, my dad, Elliot Gantz, who is a veteran entrepreneur. How many years have you spent running your own business?

Elliot Gantz: A good 35.

Tara Newman: 35 years running his own business and then in true entrepreneurial fashion retires and starts another business. Right?

Elliot Gantz: Well, a smaller continuation of the business that I was in.

Tara Newman: Same difference, because he couldn’t seem to just retire and go off to a golf course.

Elliot Gantz: No, not at all, not my style. The business has a certain amount of intrigue, a certain amount of problem solving. If you’re a problem solver and you like to problem solve, then you need to be in business. Retirement is kind of, unless you’re the type of person that could sit on the couch or watch TV or go play golf or play tennis, which I’m not, then it’s not for you.

Tara Newman: Yeah, so I did manage to pull him away from his business dealings and his day trading to come and do a podcast episode with me because last week, we were sitting in a diner and we were having a conversation. It was such a great conversation. I was just asking him questions and listening to him respond and I really got so many wonderful takeaways from the conversation that I wanted to share it here with you today.

I have to say that when I decided to leave my corporate job where I was making good money, I had great benefits, I had insurance, and all those things, I was really scared to tell my dad that I was starting my own business because I thought that he would be worried for me and that he would want me to try and stay where there was consistent income and reliable income.

I was really amazed to find that he was actually my biggest supporter in starting my own business. So I just wanted to start by asking him that question. What made you so supportive of me doing something so seemingly risky?

Elliot Gantz: Well, at the time I didn’t think it was as risky as you might have thought it would have been. You spent many years honing your craft, working for many different people in the industries that you are now settled into and it was time.

It was time for you to go on and go out on your own and I knew you’d make it. You might trip and fall, pick yourself up a couple of times, skin your knees and your elbow, but I knew you would ultimately somewhere down the road be very successful at what you were doing. It’s just your personality. You’re good at what you do. You’ve spent a lot of time learning how to do it.

Tara Newman: Thank you. I was not fishing for a compliment. You weren’t scared for me?

Elliot Gantz: You could be scared from today until tomorrow. Think about when you’re a child and you go to the ocean and you stick your toe in and it’s cold and you run away and then a parent or somebody older says, “Just take a running dive and a plunge and once your whole body gets into that cold water, you’ll acclimate,” and that’s what you do.

I mean, if you don’t ever try, it’s going to be somewhere down the line, “Well, if I did, if I didn’t, if I should have, I would have,” and you don’t want those kinds of regrets down the line. If you do it, okay, you make, like I said, trip and fall, you could possibly fail.

If you fail, you might want to start again, or you might want to say, “Okay, this is not for me. I’ll try something else, or I’ll go back to working in a steady job that I’m securing.” But most people who want to try it on their own do succeed. What you really need to do is be responsible and responsive. That’s one of the major tricks, not a trick, but major things of being an entrepreneur.

Tara Newman: All right. Let’s take those apart for a second. Responsive.

Elliot Gantz: If you have a call coming in from a client that needs to be answered, you get back to them within half an hour or 45 minutes. It shouldn’t take you two days or a day. No matter what your schedule is, you should have your organization set up where if that’s going to be your function to get back to the client, you do it in a very reasonable amount of time. A reasonable amount of time to me is a half hour or 45 minutes, and the early bird will most always get the worm.

Tara Newman: That’s tenacity. That’s your tenacity. When I hear you say responsive, the word that I hear too is action.

Elliot Gantz: Action. Yes.

Tara Newman: Take action. You have to be in action.

Elliot Gantz: And being part of being responsive and responsible is when you’re in a business or in a manufacturing business giving good news and bad news. If the product is going to be late, don’t wait until the last day to tell the client, “Well, I can’t ship today,” and don’t make up an excuse.

There are plenty of problems that happen in manufacturing that people should know about. Somebody was sick, the machine broke down. Should you be able to carry on in all aspects of problems like that? To a certain degree.

Tara Newman: Yeah, so this will be a good time to jump in and say that my dad spent 35 years running a manufacturing business, a bronze-casting foundry.

Elliot Gantz: Well, 48.

Tara Newman: 48 years running a bronze casting foundry, which is a manufacturing business where they made bronze, primarily bronze sculptures. I think you worked in other metals, but.

Elliot Gantz: Right. But primarily bronze sculptures or bronze furniture, hardware, and things like that. It was a labor-intensive business. There was always this minute you put the key in the door in the morning, you knew there was going to be one kind of problem or another to resolve. Well, let’s call it an opportunity and not a problem.

So if you anticipate that there’s going to be an opportunity, then you really don’t get way late or sidetracked because you know something’s going to come up, just what you don’t know, but you should have the ability with your experience to be able to solve the problem.

May not be solved that minute and may be solved a day later. It could be a personnel problem, a machinery problem, a problem with a client said they wanted this and now they don’t want this, they want that, but they still want it on the same date.

Tara Newman: Responsive.

Elliot Gantz: Responsive, and being responsible is making sure that happens. Or telling the client, “Well, if you have these major changes, yes, we can do it, but it’ll take us another 5 days or another 10 days,” but be responsible to that commitment. Don’t just make the commitment and walk away and forget about it.

Tara Newman: Yeah, this is taking responsibility and ownership.

Elliot Gantz: Correct, and it really relates to any business. If you’re not in a manufacturing business, you’re in a service business, even if you’re a landscaper. Landscapers have multitudes of opportunities come up being the weather but they still have to make good to their clientele who’s expecting them there on a Wednesday.

It may not be a Wednesday, it may be a Thursday, they may have to put on extra time, they may have to work weekends, but they have to get it done.

Tara Newman: Yeah, show up.

Elliot Gantz: Show up. Those people will keep getting the work.

Tara Newman: Yeah, because you build trust.

Elliot Gantz: Trust.

Tara Newman: That’s how you build trust is by showing up, being responsive, and being responsible. The way that you can do that or what helps is to expect the unexpected.

Elliot Gantz: Correct.

Tara Newman: That’s what I really heard you saying there with the opportunity. I love that you framed the problem and then you changed it to opportunity because I think that if we start thinking about problems and we start getting stuck in problems, we just create more problems.

Elliot Gantz: Oh, we also get into a negative mind frame. Opportunity is a positive mind frame. A problem is a negative mind frame. You always want to be positive. No matter what’s going on, you always want to present to your client and your personnel positiveness.

Tara Newman: Yeah, a bit of optimism.

Elliot Gantz: Always.

Tara Newman: Realistic.

Elliot Gantz: Realistic, but optimism.

Tara Newman: Yeah, all right, you heard that, folks. He’s coming from, he’s going to be 70, and he’s been running a business for 35 years and working in this foundry for 48 years and he’s telling you mindset is not bullshit.

Elliot Gantz: Correct. I’m a firm believer that most people, whatever they set their mind to, can accomplish at least 90% of the 100% goal that they set their mind to. Again, always set the goal higher because you don’t ever want to really grab that brass ring. You want to keep reaching and reaching and striving for it.

Tara Newman: Okay, so I have a question. What happens, because I know that you have been faced with times that have not been positive, you’ve eaten your fair share of shit sandwiches.

Elliot Gantz: Absolutely.

Tara Newman: I have an explicit rating on my podcast, by the way, Dad. Are you proud of me?

Elliot Gantz: I am. I am.

Tara Newman: All right. So how do you stay positive when you’re facing something that isn’t positive?

Elliot Gantz: Well, it’s simple. You have to. You may go negative in your mind for a little while and you may get tunnel visioned and you may stamp your feet and yell and scream. Make sure you do it in a closet or in a room where nobody can hear you, and get it all out. But once you get it out and come back to calm, you have to make it work or make some semblance of it work if you’re running a company.

You can’t fail. You’ve got to try, if this doesn’t, if one path doesn’t work, you try another path. If you’ve tried six paths and it’s not working, then maybe it’s the wrong item for your company.

But you must stay positive, you must get through it, and you must work through it. That’s where you have a team. In business, it’s not I, it’s we. We are the ones who accomplish. It takes a smart person to know and research people that have information that they don’t have.

Tara Newman: Yeah, so what I hear you saying there, which is actually really important, because at first, you said you just do, but then you backtracked that and what I heard you say is you can ride that emotional wave. Don’t do it publicly in front of your employees, I hear is what you’re saying.

Know where you can go to ride that emotional wave, whether it be in a closet or with peers or in some kind of community that you reach out to, ride the wave, but then you have to come back and you have to reset yourself into this positive place. You’re not saying don’t feel the fear, you’re not saying shut it off. You’re saying move through it.

Elliot Gantz: Move through it, but let me stop you at one point because you said something very important. Fear. Fear is something that you feel when the quantity of what you’re trying to do is unknown. So knowledge is a great thing. It allays fear. That’s where I broke into the aspect where it’s not I, it’s we, it’s the team.

There are people on the team that will have knowledge that you don’t have that you need to draw upon and you can’t be so egotistical that you say, “Oh, I have to solve this all by myself.” You can’t solve all of these opportunities by oneself, whether you have the expertise in-house or whether you have to go out of house to buy that expertise.

Tara Newman: One thing that I talk about frequently, I love that you brought up ego, but that if you want to be successful in business, you can’t be a know-it-all. You have to be open-minded.

Elliot Gantz: Correct, and you don’t know it all.

Tara Newman: You have to be open-minded. You have to be an agile learner.

Elliot Gantz: You have to be receptive to information. Information is the great equalizer.

Tara Newman: Yeah, because you’re saying the way you combat fear is by knowledge, and getting that however you need to get it.

Elliot Gantz: However you need to get it, whether it’s in-house or you have to buy it out of house or you have to research it, but you need the knowledge, and that will allay the fear and that will tell you how to go on.

Tara Newman: Yeah, I have a small but mighty team right now and they’re amazing. I come to them and I say, “I’m not sure I’m feeling fear or I’m not sure we can do this or I’m having this challenge,” and the second that I’m open and honest with them around what I need, which I think comes to ask for what you need, they come up with a lot of creative solutions and we find ways around things. It’s really valuable.

Elliot Gantz: I call it brainstorming.

Tara Newman: Yeah, brainstorming, having that sounding board. I mentioned asking for a reason because I think that you’re really good at asking for whatever it is that you need.

Elliot Gantz: Well, how else will you get what you need if you don’t ask for it? It’s a simple concept.

Tara Newman: I know that, but people really struggle with asking and I’ve struggled with asking.

Elliot Gantz: Because it’s the fear factor of asking. Some people don’t want to seem like they don’t know and they’re embarrassed that they might not know or they may be afraid of the answer that they’re going to get.

Listen, there’s a million things out there you can do and a million things you can’t do but you need to ask because whether the answer is positive or negative to what you want, it’s an answer. It’s a definitive end to the question.

Tara Newman: Mom always used to say, “If you don’t ask, it’s always no.”

Elliot Gantz: That’s true. If you don’t ask, it’s always no. Yeah, that’s how it works. But asking is educational because you’re asking something that you don’t know and you’re getting information and education on what you don’t know.

Ego can get in the way. I think ego sometimes runs rampant in big corporations because everybody’s trying to one-up everybody else and they’re trying to climb the corporate ladder on everybody else’s back so they don’t want to come off as not knowing.

Tara Newman: I think where I see that happening in small business as opposed to a corporate environment is that small business owners, they often don’t want to admit that they’re struggling, and that their ego is really self-protecting them by not speaking up.

Elliot Gantz: Well, it’s not self-protecting them, it’s self-damaging them by not speaking up because they never get out of the vortex that they’re in that they’re not doing well. It’s a vicious cycle of a dog chasing its tail.

Tara Newman: I asked you this last week and I loved the answer so I’m going to ask it of you again. What was your favorite business book?

Elliot Gantz: I didn’t have a favorite business book because I learned business from people that I hired. I learned accounting from my accountant that I hired. I learned law from my attorneys that I hired. That’s how I got my business education by absorbing the knowledge from these people that I hired to help out in our business.

Tara Newman: I have to say that is one thing because in our friend circle growing up and things like that, people that we know, there are a lot of families with dads your age or moms your age that had their own businesses that didn’t go to college, they started a business or maybe some of them did go to college and they started a business, and the one thing that sets you apart from your peers that I’ve recognized is your willingness to learn.

Elliot Gantz: Well, if you’re not willing to learn, then you’re not going to progress, you’re not going to have a business.

Tara Newman: You and I both, we’re not going to mention names, but we can think of people who had a similar situation to you, high school education, started a business, but made no attempts to know what they didn’t know.

Elliot Gantz: That is correct.

Tara Newman: They got along, but at the end of the day, they really [inaudible] collapses.

Elliot Gantz: Right. It just works so far. Along with the knowledge of structure of business, you also need knowledge of the world. You need knowledge of current events. You need knowledge of economics so that you could plan and map out your business and also to understand when trends happen so that when there are downtrends throughout the world because we don’t live in a limited township anymore of business, we live in a worldwide global economy, you have to know what’s happening in other parts of the world that may or may not influence your company, what you do, whether it be a service company or manufacturing company, and trends will help you know that, and again, will allay the fear that you may have of “Oh, what if this happens? What if that happens?” Well, you’ll know what to do because you’ll have the information already stored in your portfolio of knowledge.

Tara Newman: Yeah back to you fighting fear with knowledge.

Elliot Gantz: Fighting fear with knowledge. Always fight fear with knowledge.

Tara Newman: Right. I remember when I was first starting out, the thing that I struggled with the most that I think you really helped me with was my confidence.

Elliot Gantz: Confidence. Are we really always confident or are we really confident at all? A lot of it is mind over matter where you hype yourself up into being confident. Soon, that hype turns into a real thing, it turns into being confident.

Tara Newman: When Dad’s talking about hyping yourself up and then it turning into confidence, that’s actually science. It’s about reprogramming your neural pathways. It works. That’s the whole point of mindset. I love that you know these things.

Elliot Gantz: Take for instance, if you’re a shy person and you’re in sales and you need to pick up that phone and make a cold call or make a call that you’re not comfortable, it’s outside your comfort zone, you have to get over that and you have to build the confidence in yourself saying, “Okay, I’m going to pick up the phone, going to make that call. I may struggle during that call, but the next call, I’m going to do a lot better with.”

But if you don’t make that first call, you’ll never get it off of home plate. You never run to first. Once you run to first, you could run to second, third, and back home again for that home run.

Tara Newman: Yeah, confidence is about building it in increments.

Elliot Gantz: That’s where knowledge will negate fear, which will give you confidence.

Tara Newman: Yeah. When you overcome the fear, you become more confident.

Elliot Gantz: Right. It all revolves around the same thing.

Tara Newman: Bravery.

Elliot Gantz: Self-confidence.

Tara Newman: Self-belief.

Elliot Gantz: Belief, knowing where you are in the world. That’s what you had when you came to me and said, “I want to start this business.”

Tara Newman: I was confident.

Elliot Gantz: You were confident.

Tara Newman: Then my confidence kind of started to wobble.

Elliot Gantz: It always will. It’ll wobble. You’ll pick yourself up. I told you, you’ll scrape your knees, you’ll scrape your elbows, you’ll pick yourself up, put a couple of bandages on, and go forward again. You may take five steps forward and two steps back, but you’ve gained three steps.

Tara Newman: Yeah, you were always really supportive in me seeing my values, seeing my worth, making sure I was charging appropriately, making sure I was charging.

Elliot Gantz: Charging. Period.

Tara Newman: I asked my dad, I said, “You’d be on the podcast,” and he said, “How much are you going to pay me?” Which I thought was so spectacular because this is really an area that people struggle with.

Elliot Gantz: People should get paid for what they do. There are all different skill levels and pay rates for those skill levels. But they should be paid commensurate with what they do. And they should be happy with what they do because they’ve chosen to do that.

Whatever you choose to do in this world and be in this world, if you choose it and you know it has a minimum and maximum of remuneration for that job function, accept it or change it and grow to the next step, to the next function.

Tara Newman: Yeah, you’re saying take responsibility.

Elliot Gantz: Take responsibility and then be responsive to that responsibility that you’ve taken.

Tara Newman: Yeah, I think that when you are coming up in business, I’m sure that there are fad strategies and things like that, that maybe not as accessible, but I’m sure there was always the convention, the conference that gave you the new piece of business strategy.

Maybe you went to them, maybe you didn’t. But today with the access to the internet, there are all these people giving strategies and giving dogma around how to grow a business and how to do things.

One of the really popular, we’ll call them celebrity entrepreneurs right now, Gary Vaynerchuk, he wrote a book and he talks about Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook, which is give value, give value, give value. What he’s talking about is free, free, free. Then right hook is ask for the sale. But you have to be giving value and asking for the sale.

I think that people really get tripped up when they start to try and follow this stuff because all they hear is jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, jab, which is free, free, free, free, free, free, free. Then they forget or are afraid to ask for the sale. So they’re out there giving away all their value for free.

Elliot Gantz: Well, but you always have to hold some value back because people will pay for value. You could be selling the same item that John Doe next to you was selling, but your item has more value. That’s why it’s more expensive than what John Doe was selling.

As long as people feel they’re getting value for their money, they will pay for it. You should not be ashamed or embarrassed to ask for the remuneration for the value that you’re putting into either a business as a consultant or a product that you’re designing, but ask for a fair price for your value.

Tara Newman: The one area that I’m seeing you do this actually now that makes me so happy and I love watching you do this is when you’re mentoring Winnie around her pottery and her going to these fairs.

Winnie is my stepmom, she is an amazing artist. She’s a very talented potter. She puts so much of her time into learning new skills and taking her pottery. It’s gorgeous. Her pottery is gorgeous.

Elliot Gantz: Thank you.

Tara Newman: She goes to these fairs and like typical artists or anybody else, they fail to see the value in their own work because it probably comes easy to her.

Elliot Gantz: Well, what happens is the artist doesn’t see the value in the work because nothing is ever good enough. If the artist doesn’t deem it good enough, then how can I ask for this price for it?

But what the artist doesn’t see is that the public doesn’t see what the artist sees. They see something that’s beautiful, that’s utilitarian, or they put it on a shelf and they have people ooh and ahh over it. They don’t see the possible imperfections that an artist would see. The piece is not really imperfect, the piece is imperfect to the mind of the artist.

Tara Newman: I think we can all really relate to that. But what I love when you talk about it in the sense of she goes to these fairs, you’re helping her really market.

Elliot Gantz: Correct. That comes from many years of setting up trade shows.

Tara Newman: And how that adds value and she [inaudible] the piece.

Elliot Gantz: That adds value to the piece and therefore you could charge more for the piece. Winnie would set prices on something and I’d come in and I’d raise all the prices. She said, “Well, how are you going to do that?” I said, “Just watch, watch, and see what happens. It’s easy to drop your pants, it’s not easy to pull your pants up.” So, start to offer and I would reevaluate the pricing, raise the pricing, and pieces would sell.

Tara Newman: Yeah, and it’s how it got presented. It was the conversations that you were having, the relationships you were building with the people who would walk in and look at her pieces. It was the stories I’m sure that you were telling.

Elliot Gantz: It’s listening to people and listening to people in your 360 what they’re saying about other work in the fair.

Tara Newman: Okay, so you’re doing some market research as you’re standing there.

Elliot Gantz: As you’re standing there, but you learn how to do that after being to so many trade shows.

Tara Newman: All right, so market research, going around, knowing your audience, I think that this is something that I really beat my head in the wall with because so many entrepreneurs actually fail because they haven’t done the research. They haven’t tested their product in various phases. They haven’t tested the pricing of the product. They haven’t tested the language that they’re going to use to sell the product.

Elliot Gantz: And they could be stuck in the mindset that this is the way it’s always been done, but it doesn’t always have to be done the same way. You could be an innovator and branch out and make a new way that it could be done.

Tara Newman: And just because you love the idea doesn’t mean that anybody else is going to love the idea or the problems that I think people have are not the same problems that they’re languaging.

Elliot Gantz: Going back to, because you think it might be a good idea [and not other people], that’s why you have a team. You bounce the idea off of your team and then you get some outside information, whether you’re literally playing somebody off the street and present it and see what they say, or some of your peers from other businesses and see what they think. But then you put all that, again, it’s information. You put all the information together and you come up with a plan.

Tara Newman: All right. I’m going to ask you a question that I know you have some experience with and I think it’d be really valuable to hear. If somebody’s listening to this podcast and they’re struggling, they’re struggling to make ends meet, they’re struggling to make money, cash flow might be an issue, what advice would you give them?

Elliot Gantz: I would say step back a few paces, clear your head so that you can see.

Tara Newman: Stop and reflect.

Elliot Gantz: Stop and reflect.

Tara Newman: Does this shock anybody that my father is telling you to stop and reflect?

Elliot Gantz: And analyze what you’ve been doing. Think about why it’s not working, so meaning what you’re doing incorrectly. Get somebody else in who you value their opinion to bounce off of, so you’re out of your own vacuum in your own head, and put the plan back together again and go forward.

We may take three or four times to do this. It’s called reinventing oneself or reinventing one’s product or business. Every so often, you have to do that. You have to distribute business down and yourself down and you have to reinvent so that you can go to the future. Again, that’s where current events, economics, and everything comes into play. It’s one big ball of wax, so to speak.

Tara Newman: Yeah, so what I do on a weekly basis is I reflect on what’s working and what’s not working every week, because there’s always something that I can find, that one percent that could be improved, whether it’s related to my business or my personal life or me personally, that I can take action on.

I’ve made it a habit to always be in this space of what I call radical self-reflection and business reflection so I can catch the things before the bottom falls out or before I wind up in a space where it’s like, “Oh, my God.”

Elliot Gantz: Okay, but that’s where people need help because they don’t know how to do that.

Tara Newman: I know, that’s what I help them do.

Elliot Gantz: That’s right. That’s absolutely correct. If you don’t know how to do it, again, don’t be ashamed, don’t be embarrassed, don’t be afraid to find the information. You’ve come full circle.

Tara Newman: Yeah, we have come full circle. Will you come back on the podcast with me?

Elliot Gantz: Absolutely.

Tara Newman: Now that you’ve gotten your first one out of the way?

Elliot Gantz: Absolutely.

Tara Newman: Because I’d really love to have you come back and talk about money. Would you come back and talk about money?

Elliot Gantz: Absolutely.

Tara Newman: Because this is still like a taboo topic. If you are a business owner, it can’t be taboo.

Elliot Gantz: What is the timidness about talking about money? Where are you going with this about talking about money, about people charging what they think they should charge?

Tara Newman: I think it’s a lot of things. I think it’s around charging properly and asking for the sale, but I also think it’s about what do you do with the money that you make. I think there’s a conversation around, in the world of social media, where everything is so carefully curated, that there are a lot of businesses out there that perpetuate that everything is always up, up, up, up, up.

I know that’s not true. You know that’s not true so how do you weather the dips? How do you weather things as the cycles come through? I know that what I’ve learned from you around this is that profit doesn’t just come from increasing your revenue, profit comes from watching your expenses.

Elliot Gantz: Money management. It’s called money management.

Tara Newman: Yeah. So you’ll come back?

Elliot Gantz: I will.

Tara Newman: All right. Thanks for being here.

Elliot Gantz: You’re welcome.

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