Hey there, bold leaders.
Welcome to another episode of the Bold Money Revolution Podcast and we are here today with one of my clients who’s in my mastermind, Cindy Ingram and Cindy is the owner and the CEO of the Art Class Curator, which is a membership site, subscription service for art teachers where she helps them put together curriculums and lessons to make their lives a lot easier and to really support them in educating students around art. It’s something she feels really passionately about. I’m going to let her share more about what she does in a minute, but the reason for this interview with Cindy today is because she has really stood out as someone who has leveraged the mastermind to solve some of her most pressing challenges in her business this year.
Tara: She does this by asking great questions, using her own intuition, implementing and celebrating her wins, and I’m just so impressed by her ability to do this, but at the same time, I know this isn’t easy. I know many people struggle with doing any number of these things and I also know that not everyone understands how to get the most out of the mastermind they are in. So, the key topics I want to touch upon today are how to overcome your desire to know it all, so that you can actually receive the support you need, how Cindy uses her hot seat and access to the other women in the mastermind, so she can solve actual challenges that she has in her business in real time, and what it feels like to be supported in your business during a time of chaos and crisis. So, here we are today with Cindy Ingram. Welcome, Cindy, tell us a little bit about you and your business.
Cindy: Hi, Tara. I’m so happy to be here. My name is Cindy Ingram and like Tara said, I am the owner of Art Class Curator and I help art teachers use works of art in their curriculums. A lot of our teachers know how to teach, how to make art, but it’s how do you use the art that’s already made and make an impact on students that way? So, I help them do that for our membership site, curriculum, professional development, things like that.
Tara: And, what a year to be supporting teachers.
Cindy: Right, it’s been a crazy year for teachers, so it feels really good to be able to serve them right now when they need it the most.
Tara: And, we’re going to talk about this today because one of the things that I noted about you and that we will get to is you actually started to pick up a lot of momentum in March right before COVID hit and then COVID hit and you completely sprung into action as someone to serve and support teachers in their time probably of greatest need around how to do distance learning, how to do art in a distance learning perspective. So, that’s a field that we could use well. You were gaining momentum for the year and then COVID and then whoosh, it took off.
Cindy: We already had a big year planned and then COVID hit and we essentially just scrapped everything that we were working on. We knew that teachers didn’t need what we were currently offering. They needed something different, so we just completely changed course, assessed the situation, figured out what they needed, and took off, and in a really big way.
Tara: We’re going to come back to that because some of the things that you did were really fascinating and of tremendous service to the people who you are looking to help, but before we really jump in, can you share with the listeners what was life in business like for you prior to joining the mastermind? And, the reason why I ask this question is because you were really successful before you even joined the mastermind. I think you joined the mastermind because you wanted to, not because you needed to or felt like you had to. So, what was business and life like for you prior to joining?
Cindy: So, my business is about, let’s see, six years old and was slow the first few years, but after a few years I started to get success, I was able to quit my teaching job, hire a team, everything was going really well, but I was getting to a point where I wasn’t seeing the growth that I wanted. I was growing year by year, but I wanted to grow bigger, so there was that. And, I also was spending a lot of time learning. I was doing a lot of online courses and figuring out how to take my business to the next level and I had no business experience before I started my business, so it was just a lot of learning on how do I handle money, how do I handle sales tax, how do I do … And, all of that, implementing all of that.
Cindy: And then, I got to the point where I felt that I know everything I need to know in terms of how to run a business. I’ll never know everything I need to know, but I know the basics. I have a really good, strong foundation, and so I was expecting to see really big growth and I didn’t really see that and I realized that it was more than just what I needed to learn, it was what I needed to work on, on myself. So, starting about a year ago, I really dove into focusing on me. Where are my blocks, what am I doing to hold the business back, how am I living my life in a balance, not overworking, not getting really anxious about my work. So, that’s when I really started to focus on myself and I think that’s why I have had the growth I’ve had this year is because I stopped focusing on marketing tactics and growing my list and all of that and really turned in work and that’s when I found the mastermind.
Tara: I use you as an example a lot because you did take a lot of courses prior to joining the mastermind, which is similar to some of the other women in the mastermind as well and for you, who happens to be a really stellar implementer and executor, that worked for you and I think what you realize is it worked for you to a point and then that Marshall Goldsmith quote about what gets you here won’t get you there, and you were experiencing year over year growth, but what I’m hearing you say is that you got some big goals.
Cindy: I do.
Tara: You’re an ambitious sort.
Cindy: I am, and I always wanted everything to be bigger and better, so it wasn’t bigger and better enough, and I know that that’s actually something I need to work on too, that it doesn’t have to be bigger and better every single year, but I was very successful on all those online programs that I did, all those courses they use me as success stories. Some of you if you’re listening to this probably have seen my videos and testimonials and things, so they love to use me as a success story because I do implement so well, but you’re right, as I started to think about, well, my success, I’m going to get to my million dollar goal if I grow the membership to this number, and that’s all I could think of is I just got to grow the membership to this number.
Cindy: Once I get there, then it’ll be $1 million, and then once I realized that it wasn’t about that anymore, it wasn’t about getting that specific number, it was about reassessing my whole business as a whole and opening myself up to other opportunities, I realized that what got me into my current success was the membership and what will get me to my million dollar goal is something different, so that quote really does work well for my situation.
Tara: Something in addition to, so an additional revenue stream or streams is what we’ve been really looking at this year and you have successfully tested and trialed a number of things. So, can you share I guess a little more about the early days of this year as you were rumbling with some things? Because like I mentioned, I feel like in March you really started to gain momentum that there were things that started to clarify for you in maybe December, January, February. I remember when we had our first session in December that you had already started and were going to continue with say decluttering yourself from Facebook groups and from communities that you were in and really turning down the noise and then January came, February we had our retreat in Atlanta, and then by March you were picking up steam. COVID hit, and then honestly, your business has taken off. So in those early days of this year, what were some of the things that you were getting curious about and maybe rumbling with?
Cindy: I remember our first call in December and then our first coaching call in January. In the fall, I hit kind of a meltdown point. I had a launch that didn’t go as successfully as I wanted. I had a lot of personal anxieties and health things that I wanted to deal with and I just felt … And, then I was in three big coaching type groups. One was a mastermind, but it was not really a mastermind. It was more like a training type of thing, and then there was another coaching program and then another membership from another site, and everyday was spent in meetings of other people’s ideas.
Cindy: So, I’ve got all these different people telling me to do things a certain way and I would wake up every day and I would look at my calendar and I would be like, “When am I going to get all my work done because of all these meetings.” And then, all those meetings were detracting me from myself and detracting me from really focusing on my business. So, I was spending all day, every day, in other people’s thoughts basically. So, I started to, what you call “ruthlessly declutter” everything. I left pretty much every group I was in, and I was in some good groups too I really enjoyed, but it was just too many.
Cindy: I started leaving groups, I started unfollowing, unsubscribing to every email that I was in, every Facebook group, everything. I was just cutting everything out. Every single meeting that ended up on my calendar, I would really make sure that there was value in it for me and that I wanted to do it, and I wasn’t just doing it out of some obligation to some money I paid to some program that I’m not even really enjoying. So, I cut all of that and that was a huge, huge relief because I finally could just breathe for a minute and really think about the direction of where I wanted to go, and I started to cut all that stuff in September and October and in November I finally was clear enough. I had an idea that just sparked pretty much everything I’ve done since then in various ways and impacted various ways because I allowed myself the space to have the idea.
Cindy: So, I started that in the fall and then in January I joined the mastermind, and in our first call I talked to you about my goals, how I wanted to be in more school districts and this and that, and I tend to think very much in a black and white way or I have one way I think it should be done, and so that’s the way it should be done. And so, when I see some other way to do it, I get confused, but I thought, “Okay, the only way to sell to school districts was to send them letters and cold call them.” And then, you opened up and said, “No, it’s about becoming bigger than that. It’s about becoming a thought leader and writing a book and speaking on the topic.”
Cindy: And then, that really sparked a lot of the momentum I had at the beginning of the year because I realized that I was thinking way too small. I was thinking I grow my membership to this number, and that’s how I get my impact, and then in that first meeting I saw a much greater vision than I could’ve ever really imagined and I’m kind of tearing up in saying that and that-
Tara: That was a good call.
Cindy: It was, it was our first call. It was like, “Oh, investment paid for,” just with that one call I tell you. And so, it made me think about myself and my business in a different way and in a bigger way that allowed me to step into some of the things that I did since then, these programs that I’ve launched since then and feel confident doing that, and I think that mindset shift and that bigger vision really fueled all the success I’ve had this year.
Tara: I want to actually just dig into this for a second. I remember that call, that was a really good call. I was like, “Oh, she’s going to have a good year.” And, I want to point out, that the reason why … The way we expanded your vision was to align with your strengths and what excited you and what felt pleasurable to you because if I were to ask you right now, “Cindy, how does it feel to go and cold call all these schools [crosstalk 00:19:35]?” How does that make you feel?
Cindy: It makes my whole body freeze. I suddenly got colder just [crosstalk 00:19:42]-
Tara: You freak out.
Cindy: I freak out.
Tara: We’ve talked about this a few times. If the conversation didn’t end on that first day-
Cindy: I can’t do it.
Tara: We have identified that you cannot sell that way, and listen, there are people who might love cold calling. It’s just they gamify it and it’s exciting to them, but that’s now how it’s going to work for you. Now, if I said to you, “Cindy, how does it feel to stand on a stage and give a talk?”
Cindy: That sounds exciting, yes.
Tara: That sounds exciting. You really get into that and you really love doing research and getting your thoughts out there and helping people think critically about a subject. So, that’s how we realized that that was something that was going to work for you and then when you said that you’ve started to implement some of that stuff, one thing that I can think of that you did that was really in alignment with this vision was when COVID struck, you created that summit.
Cindy: Yes.
Tara: Can you talk about that? Because I just want people to see how having a conversation about vision and being in alignment with that vision then gets implemented and executed.
Cindy: So, right when COVID hit, thousands of art teachers across the country were all scheduled to go to the National Art Education Association Conference. It was supposed to be the end of March or early April, I don’t remember the dates anymore, but it was canceled and all the teachers were thrust into distance learning suddenly and we were all bummed out about it being canceled and I was walking my dog one day, at the beginning of the pandemic, and I realized, I was like, “Wait, I should throw the conference.” I actually reached out to the conference holders and I was like, “I have an idea for this.”
Cindy: But, they never got back to me, so I just did it on my own. I would’ve done it either way, but I decided to throw a conference and it was just a typical summit, online summit that you see online where you get speakers and it was free for a week and then sold the recordings on the back end of that, and we put together this conference in two weeks from when I had the idea to the first day of the conference. It was two weeks, I ended up with 50 presentations and over 8,000 participants signed up for the conference and it really was an amazing thing because teachers, they needed something and we were getting such great feedback that said they were feeling really lost and overwhelmed and they were so happy to have this, and it created a sense of community for them.
Cindy: A lot of the presentations were about remote learning, distance learning, so they had a lot of resources to pull from for the teaching online thing and my leadership of that event put me on a lot of people’s radars that I was not on before. So, I ended up having a call with a couple of people at the National Art Education Association, I’ve created some partnerships that arose out of that that are going to lead to really amazing things in the future. So, it really allowed me to step into that vision of a leader that we created in January and allowed me to embody that and it was really exciting.
Tara: And, I actually think this is a really good segue into talking about receiving support from a group of business owners through a mastermind and having a hot seat and what I want to ask you is in your own words, what is a hot seat and how do you use it? Because I know this is a huge question that people have when it comes to masterminds. I even have clients who’ve admitted after the fact that they didn’t know what a hot seat was or how to use it until they joined the mastermind and even then they were sometimes not sure or intimidated and this is something that I think that you do really well. So, in your words, what is a hot seat and what’s your strategy for using it?
Cindy: So, a hot seat is basically…we all are together in person or in Zoom and you have a set number of minutes to answer a question that you have and get feedback from the group about anything that you’re working on. And so, my hot seats have really ranged from being more strategic. If I have a really strategic thing I want to talk about, how do I sell to districts for example, or it could be an emotional container, and what I love about your mastermind that it’s not just all about business strategy. I get that enough. It’s really an emotional container too, so after the-
Tara: I know exactly what you’re saying. This is one of my favorite hot seats.
Cindy: I don’t even know. I am still uncomfortable from it, that I actually feel uncomfortable sharing it, but after the conference was over, my hot seat was simply everybody going around the room and telling me how proud they are of me, and celebrating my wins and my success because I am one of those people who I’ll have a win, I’ll have a big win, but I move on immediately to the next thing. And so, I never stop to really acknowledge that really amazing thing that I just did, and that was such a big moment for me. It was a big stepping out as a leader, it was big. Financially, it was successful and all this stuff. And so, I came to the hot seat without any sort of thing I needed help with-
Tara: Right, there was no strategic help needed. You did the strategic thing.
Cindy: I did it, and so everybody’s telling me how great I am and how proud they are of me and things that they appreciated about everything and I was totally crawling out of my skin the entire time, but it was so needed and it’s funny because I just feel like it was this release of it’s okay to be proud of yourself, it’s okay to celebrate what an amazing thing you did and to have people around you that understand that because people in the real world that aren’t in online business, they might see that as you’re bragging and in a mastermind, it’s genuinely when you share your wins there’s not this element of you’re bragging, you’re celebrating and you have the freedom to actually talk to people who know what you’re going through, so it was such a release.
Tara: I’m getting chills just remembering that. So, just my remembrance of it was Cindy showing up … I don’t want to say that you were in shock because that’s not the word I want to use, but you were totally delighted by the results that you got and I think they were a little unexpected. It’s not that you expected … You really just got activated by service in that moment and I don’t think you necessarily expected the outcome that you received and for it to be as easy and joyful as it was, not without work, because you pulled this together in two weeks, but there was an ease there and there was a joyfulness and a playfulness there.
Tara: And so, here you made all this money during a time when people were really struggling and you did it in a way that was so aligned that there was ease and joy and we just needed to allow you the space to process that and then to receive people’s reflections of how you showed up because we’re going to also talk about this because this wasn’t like we didn’t know you were doing this. You were actually tapping into the women in the mastermind and to me, and we were really supporting you through this endeavor and in a couple of ways that we could talk about.
Tara: And then, really having a place to process that and I think there are a lot of people who think that you have to come to your hot seat with maybe a specific question and you should. If you have a question, you should come and you should get an answer, which you have done on a number of occasions and then there’s times when you just show up and need to process what’s happening, so we can help you normalize the success that you just had.
Tara: So, I remember when you had this idea because you’re really great … I think that your success this year could be maybe boiled down, and this is an oversimplification, but boiled down to two things that you were alluding to before. One, listening to your own intuition. You had shut the noise down, so you could hear yourself, and then the other thing that you do really well is you get really curious and almost to a point of playfulness about your business and the ideas that you have.
Tara: And so, when we were in Atlanta, it shocked me because a lot of the women in the group struggle with this … I’ll call it a mindset or a belief that … And, I’m going to say, and you can confirm for me, Cindy, these are really high caliber, savvy, bright, successful women.
Cindy: Yes.
Tara: Right, there’s so much to admire about these women in this group and a number of them had admitted to feeling really uncomfortable when they didn’t have the answer or if they didn’t get it right or they didn’t know it all, and not from the point of having to show up as a know-it-all. That wasn’t really the vibe I was getting. They didn’t feel like they had to be know-it-alls, but there was something about knowing it all that gave them comfort and it was really uncomfortable for them to, I think, ask for help and ask to say, “Could you give me some feedback on this? Could you give me some support on this?” And so, knowing this is a challenge and you were one of the women, can you speak to that a little bit? Because you were one of the women who were able to resonate with that vibe.
Cindy: I think I’m a recovering perfectionist, a recovering GT, gifted and talented student, AP student in high school where I wanted all straight A’s, I want to do everything perfectly, I wanted to get everything right, I didn’t want to show any weakness, and that is a really, really hard thing to get over, and then when you’re running a business too, especially at the beginning and it feels so high stakes. You want it to be successful, you don’t want to mess it up or when you are successful you don’t want it to crash and burn, so you want to make sure you’re doing everything right, you know everything you’re supposed to know and I’ve learned, especially in the last probably one or two years that that actually is more detrimental to me than helpful.
Cindy: It’s a psychological thing to try to keep yourself safe. If you know everything, it’s a barrier of knowledge around you that protects you from pain, but actually I think it prevents you from a lot of success because I guess you start to close off your thinking and your creativity when you feel like there’s one right way and that you have to know everything about that one thing just to move forward. So, I feel like I’m very much on the path to recovery from that mindset, I slip into it every now and then, but I constantly have to catch myself from identifying with that person or that voice in my head and letting it really…seeing that aspect of my past I guess.
Tara: I really love mastermind hot seats for this reason because so many people will show up and they’ll say, “I don’t know what to ask. I don’t know what kind of support I need.” And, just showing up to the hot seat in itself is helping you develop that skill and helping you overcome those self-protections that might actually be holding you back, so I think it’s funny because people think you’re not doing hot seats right. And I’m like, “Well, as long as you show up for the hot seat and you use your time, you’re learning something.”
Cindy: Because I think a lot of people think that a hot seat must be about some sort of strategy thing that we have to tackle. So, I want to get X number of people in my course, what do I do? Or, this Facebook ad’s not converting, how do I get it to convert? And, you can talk strategy all day, every day, but if you don’t do anything with that strategy, what’s the point? And then also, I just feel like there are deeper … You can go deeper than that in your hot seat and I find when I’m participating in other people’s hot seats that when someone comes with a strategy question, often someone will just give feedback and I’m like, “Oh yeah, I agree with that. That’s good.” And then, we end up talking about something deeper after that. So, I feel like there is a place for the strategy and the information and all of that, but that the emotional support is more needed and more beneficial in the long run.
Tara: I agree and I even think that we always have some kind of ancillary spot this year as Voxer. I find that a lot of quick strategic questions get popped into Voxer like, “Hey, what do you think about how would you go about meeting …” Today’s was “growing your podcast”. There was a whole discussion on growing your podcast in Voxer today that I picked up on. You have popped ones in there where you have gotten such differing opinions. What did you say once? Oh, we’re just turning internet marketing on its head now.
Cindy: I was just like, “Oh, we’re just …” Everything I thought about internet marketing was wrong. Well, that I think in Coronavirus it’s true. It’s what worked before, it’s a new world now, but those strategic conversations, and I say I like the emotional conversations better, but the strategic conversations about my Facebook ads and my most recent launch probably made me the cost of the mastermind alone, just that one Voxer conversation on one day, her advice, Rachel’s advice in that moment probably paid for the mastermind.
Tara: Right, so now we’ve paid for this mastermind. We’ve paid for the mastermind in our first call, we paid for the mastermind question and answer in Voxer.
Cindy: Indeed.
Tara: So, going back to this summit that you had launched, what were some of the questions, if you can remember, that you had asked that you got answers to from the mastermind? I think I remember a couple. I think there were some around pricing.
Cindy: That’s a good question and I don’t remember because I move through things really quickly.
Tara: You do.
Cindy: So, when I have a question, I get an answer and then I take the answer and then I go do something with the answer, so by the end of it I’ve forgotten that I ever had the question, so-
Tara: So, I think some of the things that you were asking at the time were, what do you think of this idea? So, I remember when you posed it where you were like, “I have this idea.” I remember the two weeks, everybody was like, “Keep going, Cindy, keep going, run, run.” I don’t know if that’s how you felt, but that was definitely the vibe that I felt coming from everybody when you had this idea. It was just so electrifying and I think that you were a little surprised around pricing for it. That’s typically a place where you ask some questions and we challenge you to go bigger.
Cindy: I always enter price and you all have really helped me with that this year, testing out higher price points.
Tara: And, just different things like the summit itself and I think some of what you take away and what you give is a lot of encouragement because your excitement is infectious for people.
Cindy: I get really excited by good ideas and people doing amazing things. Sometimes in the middle of coaching calls I’ll be like, “Oh, you’re good at this.” I love watching people embrace their genius and do amazing things, so that’s what’s fun about a mastermind is you get to see people do that. You get to see all the different ways people could do that because there’s one person in the group, Allison who in Atlanta, every time she spoke I would just be like, “Oh, she is good.” Every time, and just I really love that and I take delight in everybody’s success and I take delight in my own business too because I find it to be so fun when you take away all of the pressure and you take away the needing to do it right and do it one way, running a business is so fun and I really am embracing that this year.
Tara: You really are, and so I’d love to just wrap this up with maybe some thoughts and advice that we have for people on how they can be using their mastermind and their mastermind hot seats to really move their business forward. Regardless of what mastermind you’re in, I think everybody could probably take something away and go make better use of their hot seat time. Is there a specific tip or something or piece of advice that you would give people for improving their outcomes from their hot seat?
Cindy: It’s funny because every time I go into one, the morning of I’m like, “I don’t know what I’m going to do here.” I don’t know what I’m going to ask and usually I think you just need to … I say this a lot, but listen to your own intuition and your own feelings about things that there is one perfect thing that you should bring, and you’re not going to get it wrong because you come up with one thing and then you realize later, oh, I really would’ve liked advice on that. There is no … And, we have Voxer for that, so that’s fine, but I would say … Sorry, that’s a hard question. I’m trying to formulate my thoughts around-
Tara: No, I think you’re actually answering it really well and I think you’re getting at the crux of how people approach mastermind hot seats in a way that actually holds them back. So, when they show up and feel like they have … They feel like there’s pressure on them to ask the right question or to make the best use of their hot seat or to not trust that they’re just going to take away the thing they need and show up in a place of trust and that intuition is critical because I think people make too much out of it and for me, personally when I’m in a mastermind, I get so much more out of sometimes my mastermind peers’ hot seats.
Tara: So, the question that they ask, they might be asking the question that I wanted to ask, but wasn’t sure how to articulate or maybe felt a little too vulnerable asking or didn’t know I needed to ask that question even. And so, the advice that I would give is to look at not just your hot seat time as time for you to grow and develop, but everybody’s hot seat time is time for you to grow and develop.
Cindy: And, I think what’s really important here too is what you said, it sparked something, is that whatever mastermind you’re in, that you need to be in a mastermind where you feel safe sharing all aspects of yourself and all aspects of your business because I was in a group in the past where I wouldn’t feel safe bringing just whatever my intuition brought. And so, I would come with maybe more strategic questions because I felt that would be better received, or maybe I would not look to whoever it was.
Cindy: That feeling of being judged, I think can come into play where it’s hard to have 20 … Not 20, like 10 people around the room looking at you and thinking about you and staring at you, asking you questions and giving you feedback and if you don’t feel safe in the group, then you’re not going to get everything that you want out of it, and you’re not going to really bring up the things that will move you forward if you’re constantly feeling closed off by the other people in the group. So, I think really make sure that whatever group you’re choosing you have a really good vibe with, so that was really important to me in this group.
Tara: I think that’s really a great perspective and one that honestly, I forget because the masterminds … I’m highly discerning about the places I put myself and my energy and who I will and will not learn from. I have a lot of boundaries around that. So for the most part, I can’t think of a time where I have been coached or have been in a mastermind that wasn’t a great experience, and yet at the same time I’m very aware that people have had experiences that haven’t been great, but I forget that that actually happens because it has never been my experience. Is there something that helped you determine whether or not this was the mastermind for you? How did you know that this was maybe different than the other mastermind you participated in?
Cindy: Well, I know someone in the group. She was my coach, so she’s my coach too in addition to you, and so she recommended it to me and spoke … She knows me really well, so she knows what I need and what I’m looking for, and so she knew that this group would be good for me, and then I listened to your session you did last year with Rachel and with Stephanie. And so, I saw you talk to people in the group about the mastermind that that really helped me and then you do an interview call with people and I really just learned to trust my intuition and I knew at that moment because I was actually really wanting last year to be in one of the masterminds run by one of the big internet marketing gurus, and I was all set.
Cindy: I was like, “I really want to be in this mastermind.” I was doing all these things to set me up, so he would notice me, so I could be in his mastermind and then I got the information to the mastermind and there was just this feeling in my body like, oh no, a wave in my body and I was like, “This is not the right decision.” It was a really physical reaction, but I’ve gotten used to listening to that, and then when I learned about yours and I listened to the podcast I was like, “That was not …” The feeling was of, I can’t believe this place exists. I did not know that … It’s not my experience to be in these sorts of groups and so to hear of this magical group that all this stuff happens I was just … I couldn’t believe that it even existed, and so that was really exciting to me when I found that out. So, I just knew. My intuition told me in lots of different ways that that was the right move.
Tara: Well, I’m grateful to your intuition because it’s been an absolute joy to be supporting you this year and to watch your growth and your expansion and to be celebrating and witnessing in all of this as well. So, I want to have you give everybody where they can find you because if you’re listening to this podcast and you know an art teacher, I want you to make the recommendation to Cindy. If you are listening to this podcast and you homeschool, Cindy’s got a great curriculum that can help you with homeschooling around art education and I think that everyone should just check you out and if they know anybody who can benefit from your services that they should make a recommendation. So, where can they find you?
Cindy: Thank you. My website is artclasscurator.com and I am on Facebook and Instagram as Art Class Curator. I admit that I probably won’t see your message if you message me on those places, so your best bet is email because I am a little bit better about email, which is cindy@artclasscurator.com, but the website has all of the information about our various programs and that is the best place.
Tara: She’s got a beautiful website and even if you just want to check out how her business operates and how she markets and positions herself, just visit her website, it’s a great opportunity to learn something. Thank you so much for coming by, Cindy.
Cindy: Thank you so much for having me. It’s been a great year so far with you.
Tara: It has been, it’s awesome.
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