The most important thing to focus on when pricing with Jacquette M. Timmons

Tara Newman:

Hey, hey bold leaders, welcome to another episode of the Bold Money Revolution podcast. I am excited to be here today with my friend and colleague Jacquette Timmons and there’s one thing that I was really, I was thinking about how I wanted to share my heart about Jacquette, and really share my heart, because she is somebody who is on my heart a lot. I can say there was a time before meeting and knowing Jacquette in my life and there is a time after meeting Jacquette and knowing Jacquette in my life. There’s a clear line there for me in my relationship with Jacquette and my life is infinitely better having met and built this relationship that I have with Jacquette. I’m excited to bring her on.

Jacquette is a financial powerhouse. Right on her website, her story starts with talking about how everyone reacts emotionally to money. By the way, this is why Jacquette and I get along so well, is we’re both behaviorists and we both love talking about money. She said that she first became aware of this on October 19, 1987, AKA, Black Monday. I really just wanted to put that there to let you know the depth of knowledge that this woman brings to financial conversations. Jacquette is somebody who I go to, and we’re going to do it her a little bit. I asked her if it was okay if we talk a little bit about the economy, because this is one of my favorite things to talk to Jacquette about.

We’re going to start off and we’re recording this in July, it’s probably going to go live in September, just to give you some context of where we are in our conversation here, before we jump into talking about pricing. Last time you heard me talk about pricing, this week I’m talking to Jacquette about pricing, because I want you to have a very robust and full picture of how people talk about pricing that includes nuance and I think, a level of context that you might not get especially if you are in the online space. So, welcome Jacquette. Thank you for being here. I’m so excited to have this conversation with you.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Oh my God Tara, so am I. People get to eavesdrop on the conversations that we have offline. So a) I’m really delighted to be here and b) thank you so much for just your really awesome, kind words at the top. You know that you are just so special to me, so the feelings are mutual.

Tara Newman:

Also, I just want everybody to know that it will become very evident to you by the end of this conversation why I partner with Jacquette and have her come in as a paid expert to my Mastermind. I had her come in this year to talk about pricing and she’s already in my budget for next year’s Mastermind. She will be back. Jacquette, you will be back. You’ll come back, right?

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Look forward to it.

Tara Newman:

I sprung that on her at the last minute, just assuming she’s going to say yes to me.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Of course, of course.

Tara Newman:

All right, I checked with Jacquette before we started this recording because she and I tend to banter a little bit about what we’re seeing in the economy, because I think we’re super nerdy like that. I wanted to just go back and forth, so here we are, it’s July, Jacquette, the July jobs data will be coming out on Friday and they are really highly anticipating this jobs data coming out. They are anticipating that we will have added a bunch of new jobs back into the market. That we’ll be at around 10.6% unemployment, which is about the same unemployment rate where we were at during the Great Recession, however, this is a very different recession than I think we’ve seen in the past. What do you think?

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Well yeah, totally. Part of that is because at least in other years, even like the Great Recession, when we had a high unemployment rate, at least there were more options for where people could land on their feet in terms of getting another job. For so many people right now, given the significance of just how broadly different industries in different sub-industries within those industries have been affected, where are people going. You’ve got large corporations that are quietly laying people off. You’ve got entire industries that have just completely been flattened.

One of my frustrations last week, hearing some of the back and forth with some of the politicians around whether or not to extend the $600 extra for unemployment and someone had the nerve, in my opinion, had the nerve to say that that extra $600 is a disincentive and people aren’t looking for work. I’m like, “First of all, that may apply to a small portion of us-

Tara Newman:

Yes, A.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

But B, where the heck are they going to go? “They’re talking as if people are just hanging out at home, collecting this extra money and either disinterested or are not taking advantage of options. I’m like, “There are no fricking options people. What are you seeing that I am not?” So, hopefully that wasn’t too much of a rant, but.

Tara Newman:

So I follow, just for everybody’s reference, I follow The Wall Street Journal. I follow The Atlantic. I follow LinkedIn news a lot, so I follow a lot of the economists and stuff like that who are posting on LinkedIn. I try and think as critically, I sometimes read The Economist. I try and think as critically and take in NPR. I try and take in as much information from different … Even Fox News, because I want to temper. I’m good with kind of taking in lots of different perspectives to help me think critically about the perspective that I want to have. I say this, because I forget where I read this … It might have been The Wall Street Journal, but I don’t think it was … That we can expect to see one major airline go out and one major hotel chain go out, they’re predicting, of business within the next 30 to 90 days. But also Jacquette, I’m making money in the markets, so I’m really perplexed.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Well, I think what we have to really understand, and I think sometimes this is where the news does the general public a little bit of a disservice, and that is that we have to remember that the stock market is not the economy. For those of us that are invested in the stock market, our portfolios, depending upon how you are invested, they are doing really well.

Tara Newman:

Really well. I was like-

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Really well, exactly.

Tara Newman:

I’m like, … But you know in past recessions, this hasn’t been the case. The economy and the market have, in my understanding, have been a little more tied. I was very surprised and quite frankly startled, positively startled, when I opened up my, I guess it was my Q three reports.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Right, right. Right, right.

Tara Newman:

No, Q2 reports. Sorry.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Q2 right. You opened your June 30. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tara Newman:

Yep. 

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Again, I’m going to go back to the fact that if we want to compare just for easy reference what we’re going through now versus say 2008, I think one of the reasons why perhaps they were a little bit in tandem, was because what precipitated that was indeed-

Tara Newman:

Yeah, banks and real estate.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

But it wasn’t real estate, but it was actually mortgage backed securities. So it was an investment vehicle that was really woven into why things collapsed. This time around, it wasn’t misbehavior.

Tara Newman:

No, the banks are okay right now.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Right, exactly. I think that that’s one of the reasons. This is all anecdotal. I don’t have any resource proof.

Tara Newman:

We’re just having fun here. We’re just having fun.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Yeah, I don’t have any resource proof, but I’m just thinking from what I recall and just other experiences that to me I think that’s the real crux of it, that it wasn’t any aspect of the stock market that precipitated the recession. The stock market was just doing its thing right now and it just happened it initially went down because everybody was hysterical, understandably so. Now, it’s found its footing, it’s rebounded and here we are where the stock market is doing gang busters and the economy not so much.

Tara Newman:

We’re seeing a lot of big retail chains struggling and declaring bankruptcy right now. But when you look at what they are putting forth from their P&L, I mean, the amount of debt these businesses were carrying, that started way before COVID-19. This was just kind of like, in my opinion, the icing on the cake so to speak. The nail in the coffin. I’ve been shocked to read the debt load that some of these businesses are carrying.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

But a lot of that debt load is real estate, so when you think about how the commercial real estate market has just been up-ended. You have these really large companies that are reevaluating, do they really need the expensive real estate footprints that they’ve been carrying for so long. So all of these large corporations that are now, “Wait a second, we’re doing really well. We’re really profitable, which is why the stock market is up. The majority of our people have been working remotely. They’re working from home. Do we need to have the expensive” … Especially if you have commercial footprints in high real estate markets like New York City, like D.C., like San Francisco. It really then makes you wonder if you can do just as well with more of your people working from home, why take on that expense. I think a lot of that debt is because of real estate.

Tara Newman:

Yeah, some of them that are coming up are like 24 hour fitness and a lot of the retail clothing, fashion industry. I mean, some of that is because they haven’t created a great online shopping experience and they have been very reliant on in-store shopping, almost like the Blockbuster situation where they didn’t innovate quick enough.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

And you know, it’s really interesting because I remember, the town in which I grew up is a college town. I remember when the mall first came to town. It was a huge big deal and you’ve got the big name stores that are the anchor stores. I went back to my hometown last year and that place is a ghost town. So you’re right in terms of people’s buying behavior has changed rather significantly. But here’s something else that I think is really fascinating and I’d be curious to know what you think of this. But I remember when I first started on Wall Street and the uniform if you will, was these awful gray suits with the pink button down shirts, which I never did, because I was like, “There’s no way you’re getting me in that. I’ll be conservative, but not that.” But anyway, my point being that there was a corporate America uniform.

Tara Newman:

Oh yeah, Brooks Brothers, girlfriend.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Right.

Tara Newman:

I didn’t mean to gender you, but yes, Brooks Brothers.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Yeah, absolutely. There was a uniform and a lot of these stores kind of blossomed and expanded because of that uniform. But in general, over the years, I think we’ve become a little bit more casual. I think sometimes a little bit too casual, but that’s another conversation. We’ve become a little bit more casual when it comes to professional environments and now that you have people working from home, it’s really, really different. I wonder if you’ve got this intersection that is just kind of coming together, that is just really, really rocking these large retailers from the standpoint of real estate debt is just way too much and so now they need to close some stores. The way people are dressing, the way it’s a quote unquote, appropriate to dress for corporate America. I wonder if some of that in addition to what you shared at the beginning in terms of buying behavior, if all of that is what’s coming together as the concatenation of why these major retailers are declaring bankruptcy at rapid pace. Because you’re right, it’s not just because of COVID since March.

Tara Newman:

Right. I mean, I think that for me the two things that I’ve noticed the most and this goes for any business right now, a good economy hides a multitude of sins.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Yes. Yep.

Tara Newman:

That’s one thing. Anyone can do well in a good economy, I’m convinced. Everything works. Even if it doesn’t, you don’t have to look too close at how you are … I mean, you should, but I get that people don’t when they’re making money pretty easily, or hand over fist in some cases, that they’re not looking at the entire P&L, they’re just looking at the revenue coming in. That’s one take away that I’ve had. The other take away that I’ve had is that while everything has changed, nothing has changed. The issues that people are having, aside from businesses that in my mind are directly impacted by COVID, even then I could make some arguments, but like restaurants, but everything has changed, but nothing has changed. The people are still having the same issues. Maybe you weren’t managing your P&L very well. Maybe you weren’t being as responsible with your money. Maybe you were making revenue that wasn’t profitable. Maybe you had issues with team or culture. These things are just now exacerbated. They were already here.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Right. Well, it goes back to the fact that we both are focused on people’s behavior, right?

Tara Newman:

Yes.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

So, that’s the human aspect of it. The humanist never goes away, because we’re humans.

Tara Newman:

Yes. I love these conversations and we could clearly have just this conversation for the entire episode, however, we did promise people that we were going to have a conversation around pricing. I actually think that this is a prefect segue, because I want to quote you on something that you have on your website. Jacquette says, “Crunching the numbers will get you results, but math alone won’t get you the best results.” Jacquette, tell us about that philosophy of yours.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Yes. So, I love my industry, but I think one of my major criticisms of it, is this large emphasis on financial success only being measured vis-a-vis the numbers. My thing there is if that were true, and given the fact that two plus two always is going to equal four, then why isn’t everybody massively successful when it comes to money? I think what I am looking to get across in that statement is getting people to pay attention to, if it’s not just about the numbers, then what is it about and get curious about that. That’s my way of leaning or inviting people to lean into the idea of, the numbers are important, so we need to respect them and yet at the same time, we also need to be mindful of the role of one’s behavior, your choices, what are the motivations behind those choices, and what are the emotions behind all of it.

Tara Newman:

I always say, if I wanted to make easy money, I’d go back to work in corporate.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Yes.

Tara Newman:

I was able to do my job in corporate with both hands tied behind my back. It was easy for me. I just showed up. I didn’t even have to show up 100% and I still got promoted and somebody else made sure that my paycheck landed in my bank account every week. I was paid weekly. If I wanted to make easy money, I would just go back and work for corporate, but that is not what I want.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Right. Right, exactly. It’s so funny because thankfully I haven’t had this inclination in a minute. But I remember sometimes thinking, “Oh God, maybe I should just go and get another job.” Then I’m thinking, “Well, as much effort as you would need to put into doing that, why don’t you just put that into getting a new client?”

Tara Newman:

True. True. Jacquette, you run these fantastic pricing workshops and if you’re listening to this and you’re kind of picking up what Jacquette is laying down, you’re going to want to make sure you’re following her to stay up to date as to when she does her pricing workshops. What I want to know Jacquette is, what are some of the most common questions that you get from people around their pricing, other than what should I price this at, because if I had a nickel for every time my clients asked me what to price something at, I’d be making way more money than I’m currently making. I know you get that question a lot too.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Yes, exactly. That is a really key question. Another key question is, how do people get folks to value what it is that they’re bringing to the table? As an example, someone that’s interested in taking a upcoming pricing workshop, they reached out to me because they wanted to know if I went into depth around the fact that they do a lot of work around racial and social justice work, and they’re exclusively B2B. They’re like, “A lot of times I find the corporations, they’re interested in it, but they don’t really want to pay for it.” So they say that they don’t have the budget for it. They’re trying to figure out, “how do I get people to value the work that I’m bringing to the table, that they say that they value”. I get those kinds of questions. Like, “How can I get better at either pricing it in such a way that those people don’t think twice about it, or perhaps repackaging it, so that that’s not really the question any longer?” That’s one question.

Another common question, and I think this kind of dovetails into one of the reasons that I state that makes pricing hard, which is that the question, what should I charge for whatever, is ubiquitous. The answer is very personal, and yet, everybody is really curious about what other people are doing. There’s this curiosity around, “Well, what are some of the other people that you work with, how do they approach it?” I think if they’re asking that question, because I do think there can be a benefit from looking at other business models, especially if it’s not in your, I like to say vertical if you will, it can be really useful. But I think if they’re coming at it purely from a comparison standpoint and they want to benchmark their pricing to that other person’s pricing, without really knowing what all went into it, I think that’s when you get into the danger zone. Those are two common questions.

Tara Newman:

I find, when I talk about pricing, I talk about how personal it is. Because for example, and I always say to people as a business coach, I think people look to me and they think that I’ve got it figured out and they want to replicate what I’ve done. I always say to people, please do not replicate my pricing, because my pricing is based on some very specific, personal and unique circumstances. Like the corporate work that I do, that nobody sees me marketing, that they don’t even realize that I do, that allows me to go and make a certain amount of money from corporate consulting, then make sure I’m profitable. Then there are programs like the Brave Society that benefit from the fact that I have this corporate income stream coming in.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Exactly. Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. In that regard, we have similar models, because I do a lot of B2B in that regard as well, and B2C, so we’re very similar in that way.

Tara Newman:

We’re twins, because remember when I wanted your brain space on something and I bought the one hour session with you and it’s the same price as my one hour session?

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Yes, yes, yes. And don’t forget, you’ve got your follow up session to schedule.

Tara Newman:

Yes, I will. I will. That was so funny, I was like, “Oh, well there you go.”

Jacquette M. Timmons:

That was the affirmation.

Tara Newman:

Yes. So let’s see, what is a common mistake that you see people making? You’re like, “Just one Tara?”

Jacquette M. Timmons:

You know right?

Tara Newman:

No, just give me your favorite one.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

The common mistake/Jacquette’s pet peeve-

Tara Newman:

I was wondering if you were going to go to the same place, so you go.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

… is the languaging that says, “Charge what you are worth.”

Tara Newman:

Okay yep, we were going to go there.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Oh my God, for me that is like nails on a chalkboard. I will own it. I will own it in that some of it perhaps comes from history. I’m black, my heritage is Jamaican-American, so there is a history that goes along with someone tying a dollar amount to someone’s humanity. That is why I have such a strong, very visceral reaction to the notion of charging what you’re worth. Setting that aside, but I do think it’s important for people to understand-

Tara Newman:

100%.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

… why I am so vehemently opposed to it. Setting that aside, I think it also misses the point, because the point is when you’re talking about the worth or the value that you are bringing to the table, it’s not your humanity. It truly is a concatenation of what’s your education, both formal and informal, what’s your expertise, what’s your perspective, what’s been your experience? What are your skills, your gifts, your talents? What about your ability to deliver and take someone from point A to point B and within whatever the container is that you’re delivering it? You’re helping them to address a challenge of frustration or to meet a deep goal or desire. That is the piece that you are quote unquote charging for. That’s the piece of the conversation that I think folks need to be having more explicitly, so if they’re going to say charge what you’re worth, be really clear around what you mean with your worth. But I think so often it’s floated out there of charge what you’re worth, as if you’re putting a price tag on your body, and I just have such a hard time with that.

Tara Newman:

I always say I’m priceless-

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Yes.

Tara Newman:

And Jeff Bezos couldn’t even afford me.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Exactly. Because it’s true.

Tara Newman:

Also, I did this episode on how to have massive growth at a moderate pace, where I start talking about influencers. I was inspired because I watched the Fire Festival and they defined influencer as somebody who monetizes their identity.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

I’ve listened to that episode. Yes.

Tara Newman:

With my background in psychology and the psychology of business, I became really concerned for people who are monetizing their identity and their person and their worthiness. It just seems like a formula that I don’t want to be involved in. But also, we have to separate our identity from our business entity, otherwise, we start to get really conflated around things like pricing or customer delivery or even customer complaints. We start to take things really personally and when you have a micro business, that’s very easy to do. So anytime that we can extrapolate the identity from the business entity, I’m really for that. I think that you’re kind of saying something very similar and I really enjoy that you feel so passionately about that.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Yes. And if I can just say that I agree with everything that you just said, and I would amplify it and say it’s even true if you quote unquote have a personal brand. Even your personal brand is not you, it is a business. I think it’s important to make sure you separate that out, because if any aspect of your identity changes, then people are no longer buying what you have to offer, that doesn’t mean that you become less of a human.

Tara Newman:

Right. This is also, I guess, why I don’t have a problem with charging dollars per hour. I don’t have a problem charging dollars per hour and I think in some places, maybe even some services that you deliver, it’s appropriate. However, I remember when I first started my business, I was charging a rate and my first client he was a corporate consultant and he did the math and he was like, “Well, I’m paying you for this many sessions and this is how much you’re getting per hour. That must be nice.”

Tara Newman:

At the time I was so new in business, it obviously rubbed me the wrong way, but I couldn’t figure out what the problem was with that until I became a little more sophisticated of a business owner in the sense that when I charge dollar per hour, that’s not those dollars are going in my pocket. That’s X amount of those dollars are going to my business expenses to pay my team. X amount are going to pay taxes. X amount is going towards profitability and then X amount is going into my pocket. If I charge $500 an hour, that isn’t Tara Newman taking $500 and putting it in her pocket and walking away. That’s my business taking $500 for the hour of my time and then putting it where it needs to be appropriately for the business.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Yes, and I think the other thing that needs to be factored into this is that often when people quote unquote charge for the hour, they’re only charging for the hour that they’re actually engaged with that client, but they’re not charging for the time that they’re prepping for it or that they may need to debrief. I am not a fan of pricing by the hour if you’re only factoring in the hour that you might be spending with the person. If you are also calculating your upfront time and your backend time and admin time, then okay. But if you’re not, then you are really, really … That’s an example of undercharging and you don’t even realize that you’re undercharging. Especially, if you have not only the mindset, but the systems in place that remind you that that $500 is not yours.

Tara Newman:

Correct.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Only a portion of it is.

Tara Newman:

Correct. Correct. I think you brought up something around charging for the transformation.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Yes.

Tara Newman:

Can we talk about that?

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Sure.

Tara Newman:

Because I think that that gets a little nebulous for people. I think the reason why it gets nebulous for people is because of the question that you said you get often around how do we get people to value what we’re offering. From my experience in the work that I do, we get people to value what we’re offering when we value what we offer and when we see the value in what we offer. Often times, my clients are not seeing their own value, because they’re too in it. They can’t see the forest through the trees. I think when we start having these conversations around charge for the transformation, people’s heads kind of get a little spiny, because again, they’re not seeing the value of what they’re doing, because so often they think, “Well duh. It’s no big deal.” Can you speak to how people might be able to understand pricing for the transformation?

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Yes, and I’m going to use a really simple tool. That is just a straight line. A straight line where on the left hand side is, where is someone now. On the other side it is where they want to be in the future. If you have a really clear understanding of where they are now and the factors that have contributed to that, without any shame or judgment wrapped around that, and where is it that they want to go, your process, your value, the thing that you are contributing to in terms of the transformation is, how do you get them from point A to point B? The clearer you are in being able to see it yourself and then being able to articulate the process that you’re going to walk them through to get them from point A to point B, to me that’s the transformation. That’s the value. That’s the process. Whatever word you want to use, but you’re helping them get from point A to point B in a way that they could not get on their own.

Tara Newman:

What I also like for people to do is to think about a time when they’ve received a transformation. Because sometimes we’re so-

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Relate.

Tara Newman:

Right, we’re able to see it in a different way. I usually give an example of, I worked with a health coach, who she wasn’t giving me meal plans. She was working on the mindset around food and the behaviors and the emotions. Emotions around food. We worked together for a really long time. I think I wound up being net zero on weight loss, but the transformation for me was walking away from and finding freedom from 40 years of emotional eating. That was priceless, because the grip that it had on my life for so long, it didn’t … And I paid her a really good amount of money and it was worth every penny, because of the years and the years of Weight Watchers, and diets, and fads, and trying this and trying that, and beating myself up with exercise. All of those things to become emotionally free of that mindset was absolutely priceless to me.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Oh my goodness. One of the many things that I love about you sharing that is … I think this is something else that can sometimes get lost … and that is making sure to communicate that someone might not see the benefit of your work right this minute. So maybe you saw something immediately working with this person, but I would suspect that it’s one of those things where after several years perhaps, that’s when you really, really internalized it and you really felt the impact of the work that you had been doing with that person. I don’t know if it’s always communicated, but I think it is important to remind people sometimes that you want them to have an immediate win, yes. But that sometimes the deeper win is going to come sometime afterward. Whenever I do a pricing intensive, I remind people that, you know what? It’s probably going to be about three months before you really see the impact of this. Because they’ve got to actually implement it, get some feedback. It takes some time.

Tara Newman:

Yes. I say a lot of times depending on where somebody is revenue wise, when they come to work with me and I know what their goal is on the discovery call, I’ll be very honest. I’ll be like, “Listen it could be six months before you truly see this pay off.” But I will also tell you that you will have the return on this investment for decades.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Yes, exactly. Exactly. And for me, I think one of the reasons that that’s important and I think we may have had a side bar conversation about this as well, is I think culturally we are just too far into this whole microwave way of thinking. Zap it and in 30 seconds, you’re going to have something to eat. Oh my God, and we just need to really level set and just remind people that somethings you can get that quickly, other things, not so much.

Tara Newman:

I want to start to kind of wrap this up and close this out and I would love for you to share maybe, especially I guess, right now, because I know you and I are both on the same page of how to handle pricing in the middle of this storm that we’re in. But what’s one solid action you can give people around their pricing right now, that they can take away from this episode and maybe go take action on?

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Avoid the temptation to panic price.

Tara Newman:

Oh yes, I knew you were going to say that.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

It may not feel as acute today as it perhaps did when all of this started happening, but I think there are still some lingerings in the air around this. So avoid the temptation to panic price, because here is the deal. This is a collective panic for everybody. It doesn’t matter who you are, where you are in the income or wealth spectrums, where your business is on the revenue spectrum, everybody has been impacted. The degree differs, but impact everybody, so there’s the collective element. But the truth is, we all also have gone through our individual crises, whether it was on the personal side or on the business side.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

It’s not the first time that we’ve bumped up against a crisis, so it’s not the first time that maybe you’ve needed a quick infusion of cash and if in the past you’ve lowered your prices as an answer, okay, but let’s not continue that pattern. Come up with a different offer at a different price point, maybe even for a different audience, but don’t minimize what you already have out there by lowering the price thinking that that’s going to not only give you a quick infusion of cash, but also make you a better human or a better business person, because it doesn’t. It could potentially make you broke, but it won’t make you a better person or business owner. Resist the temptation to panic price, whether we’re dealing with this crisis or another one that’s down the road.

Tara Newman:

That made me want to ask you another question.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Sure.

Tara Newman:

What is the value to business owners to make sure that they’re pricing their services, products, whatever, at the best price point? What is possible for them? What do they get to do? Because I think this is so important for people. I don’t think that people understand what they then get to then go and do when they are healthy financially in their business and that starts with how you price your programs, your offerings and your products. What’s the good in the world that comes out of doing the hard thing and seeing your value and seeing the transformation that you provide? Because that is uncomfortable, and then charging accordingly, what do they get to go do, Jacquette?

Jacquette M. Timmons:

You actually get to go and do more of the good that you probably want to do anyway. Here is the thing, I always remind people that to me, we need to get rid of this cultural conversation that says an ideal business owner or entrepreneur is that one that gives their business everything including their financial future. I just don’t agree with that any longer. I mean, I used to operate like that, and the challenge is that you make yourself more financially vulnerable, so that means that your financial present perhaps, and certainly your future, is not as stable as it could be. Then that just limits everything. That limits your capacity to live life on your own terms, whatever that may be. It limits your capacity to be as philanthropic as you may want to be.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

That’s just the financial peace. Let’s also factor in the fact that there is a psychological and an emotional element to when you are constantly struggling around money. When you are constantly under-charging and feeling like you’ve got to prove yourself. That takes a toll over time, even if you’re not necessarily paying attention to that toll in the moment. The cumulative impact of it, I think is really damaging emotionally and psychically. And then there’s also the financial piece of it in that you’re not setting yourself up to go beyond surviving. Why do we just think surviving is acceptable. It doesn’t have to be. You’re thriving and doing really well, doesn’t take away from somebody else doing the same.

Tara Newman:

It actually elevates it.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Absolutely, because it lets other people see that, oh my goodness, this is possible. It’s just like right now, one of the things that I have a challenge with, and I walk very tenderly in here, because I don’t want to in any way discount the fact that there are some listeners who maybe have lost a family member or a client or a really dear friend to COVID. I don’t want to dismiss the fact that some businesses have folded never to return, or people have lost jobs. I don’t want to dismiss that. Yet at the same time, I also think that we need to have conversations around people that are really doing well right now, because not everybody is doing poorly. Part of the reason for wanting to amplify those stories of people doing well, is so that people can see what’s possible.

Tara Newman:

Thank you, Jacquette. Thank you for speaking to that, because that has probably been one of the biggest things that my clients have struggled with this year, is the fact that they are doing well.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Yes. Yes, and you should not feel ashamed of that. Or you should not be … I may not say this grammatically correct, you should not be told you can’t feel happy about that or feel any other way other than happy about that, because of somebody else’s potential negative reaction, or real negative reaction to it. You know what it is? You shouldn’t have to be small in order for somebody else to take up space. You should be able to take up space as well.

Tara Newman:

You know what I think that they’re missing, and this is really important, because it’s a trait that I look for in my clients, is that they want to be a part of creating an economy. These are women who are my clients who are buying homes right now. Who are buying cars. Who are doing work on their homes and hiring people. Especially right now with COVID, they’re mostly outdoor projects, but like landscapers and things like that. Who are still able to go to restaurants or help a friend who is in need, and they’re also contributing wildly to political campaigns right now, and anti-racism work and diversity work and stuff like that. This is all really important stuff, that where we need to be channeling our dollars and our money toward. Understanding what it means to be a financial powerhouse.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And own it.

Tara Newman:

And own it.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

And own it, even if it feels uncomfortable sometimes. Even own the discomfort. But own it.

Tara Newman:

Then either, I guess one or two things will happen. Either the people who aren’t doing so well, but want to do better, they’re going to look at that and they’re going to see inspiration and they’re going to see hope. Or, they’re going to say, and this is nothing bad, they’re going to say, “Hey, my mental health needs a break from this and I’m going to opt out of listening, viewing, consuming this kind of content until I’m in a better space.” Because I’ve been there. That was me in the 2008, 2009 recession. We were struggling so greatly that by 2010, we went bankrupt. There were certain things that I could take in during that moment of crisis and there were some things that I couldn’t take in during that moment of crisis. But that was then for me to decide. It wasn’t like somebody else didn’t have to decide for me what I saw and what I didn’t see.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Exactly. Exactly. It’s all about agency. You have agency over your choices and other people have agency over theirs. That doesn’t mean that because you have agency, that’s not an invitation to be cruel. No, not at all. Yet at the same time, it’s not your responsibility to police how somebody else may or may not respond to what you do or do not do.

Tara Newman:

I always say to people, I really encourage people to lead, and when I say lead, especially in this space, if you have the opportunity to show up as the solution, show up as the solution. Don’t show up as the problem we’re having.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

I love that.

Tara Newman:

The problem we’re having now is a lot of fear, a lot of uncertainty, a lot of scarcity that may or may not be true. It may or may not be true for you. But if you have the opportunity to show up from a place of abundance and generosity right now, and courage, please show up and lead from abundance, curiosity and courage, because the people who are uncertain, in fear or feeling scarcity right now, we need more of the abundance, generosity and courage energy.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Absolutely. Absolutely. I so love that. I also love the usage of the word energy. Because I think that also can be a clue for us. If something is depleting us of energy, we need to pay attention to that and explore and get curious around why and similarly, if something is really energizing us, get curious around that too and try to figure out ways to have more of those energizing experiences or moments. If it means spending more time with those people, then try to do that.

Tara Newman:

Yes. 100%. And it will come back and it will impact your money positively.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Tara Newman:

Money really is energy. I like what you were saying, Jacquette, that the saying where it’s not pie. There’s more than enough slices for everyone.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Yes, definitely.

Tara Newman:

I had a fascinating conversation with my husband this morning about the struggle that the Mint is having printing coins, and how Chick-fil-A is offering free chicken sandwiches for anybody who brings them coins.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Oh my God.

Tara Newman:

Did you hear this?

Jacquette M. Timmons:

I did not hear this. That’s hysterical.

Tara Newman:

Yeah, so I didn’t realize. Hey again, there’s more than enough, we just print more money here. I didn’t realize that coins, I guess, go out of circulation more quickly than bills, because they get dropped on the floor, they go down a sewage drain, you throw them in a fountain, whatever it is. Because the Mint was closed for a period of time, they weren’t making the coins and now there’s a bit of a shortage when it comes to our coins. I think it’s Chick-fil-A that’s saying like, “If you bring us your coins, if you bring us $20 in rolled coins, we’ll give you a $20 bill and a chicken sandwich.”

Jacquette M. Timmons:

I think that’s hysterical.

Tara Newman:

I think it’s incredibly innovative, regardless of what you feel about Chick-fil-A and based on your politics of if you’ll eat there or not. I think it’s good innovation.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Yeah, that’s definitely responding in the moment to the moment.

Tara Newman:

All right, Jacquette, it was such an honor to have you come by. Can you tell people where they can find you?

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Yes, please. Thank you so much again for having me. I love me some Instagram, so you can find me on Instagram, just put my name in the search box and I will come up. Or, you can also go to jacquettetimmons.com and if you want to do a free exercise to help you have a better understanding of your relationship with money and helping you to create your financial vision, go to jacquettetimmons.com/wheel.

Tara Newman:

I really want to encourage everybody to not only follow Jacquette to find out when her workshops are coming up, but I also want to encourage you to get on her email list. She sends one email on Sundays and it is very well thought out, very thought provoking. She also does one of my favorite things ever, is she uses … Is it called Buy Me a Cup of Coffee?

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Oh my God, yes. Buy Me A Coffee.

Tara Newman:

It’s called Buy Me A Coffee, and it’s embedded into her email and you can go and if you’ve taken something away from the content that she’s created, you can buy her coffee. I really want to encourage everyone to, one, sign up for her emails, because they’re fabulous. Two, buy her a cup of coffee, because what’s she doing there is she’s taking a stand for content creators getting paid, and that is one of my favorite things ever. How is that working for you? We’re wrapping up the episode, but we’re just going to keep talking, Jacquette. How is the Buy Me A Coffee doing?

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Oh my God, can I tell you? So, I got the idea and this beautiful disclosure, I got the idea from listening to a podcast, so shout out to podcasts. I was like, “I’m going to try that.” I have gotten a cup of coffee or several every single week that I’ve published since I’ve been doing it. It’s phenomenal. It’s phenomenal not just because people are buying me coffee from a financial standpoint, it’s phenomenal because I’m so fricking surprised. I just am really warmed by the fact that people are showing their support in that way. It’s just so lovely.

Tara Newman:

It’s fair energetic exchange, and it’s so important that if you’re learning from somebody, that you have fair energetic exchange from them. Don’t just consume their content. Take action from their content. If it’s a podcast, review their podcast. If Jacquette puts a Buy Me A Coffee link, buy her a cup of coffee. Like their post or share their post on Instagram. Comment on their social posts. Give them a fair energetic exchange for what they’re giving to you.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

Yeah, totally. Totally, totally, totally. I love it. Other folks, you should adopt it as well. If it feels right for you. And you don’t have to do just Buy Me A Coffee, they give you other options, but I do really do like coffee.

Tara Newman:

All right, Jacquette, thank you so much for coming by and dropping these beautiful words of wisdom for my listeners.

Jacquette M. Timmons:

It was such a delight and I really do appreciate you having me. Thank you.

Tara Newman:

Thank you.

Important links to share:

Listen in on CEO Debriefs and Get 10 BOLD Questions for your own debrief.

The BRAVE Society

Follow Tara over on Instagram

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